IN DEPTH STUDY

MORRIS VENDEN AND THE NEW OBEDIENCE 3

SECTION SIX: SPONTANEITY IS OUR VICTORY

IMPULSIVE OBEDIENCE - GENUINE OBEDIENCE IS NATURAL

"Genuine obedience is natural. Natural obedience comes as a result of the faith relationship." FTW, 183.

[By this, Morrie means that genuine obedience comes naturally and spontaneously by itself. It will come easy to all who are "in Christ," without any effort on their part -ever.]

OBEDIENCE YES, BUT ONLY SPONTANEOUSLY

"Obedience is possible. Obedience is necessary.. Obedience is important. If, we depend upon Jesus as He depended upon His Father, we will have Him dwelling in us, and obedience will come naturally, spontaneously." FTW, 186. .

IMPULSIVE OBEDIENCE

"There is only one true kind of obedience. It is obedience that comes from being controlled by God . . That sounds like impulsive obedience to me. Do you like the sound of impulsive obedience? Would I have to try hard to obey? I would have to try hard not to obey."-5 AUC CM.

SPONTANEOUS OVERCOMING: HOW TO OVERCOME ALCOHOLISM

"Because of her absolute surrender, her longing for drink left her completely. . "Why was this possible? Because she had admitted her sin and given up on herself, and God could help her when she came to that point.

Perhaps our problems aren't as noticeable as Alice's, but the principle remains the same. We cannot do anything ourselves apart from Christ.. Yet we often hinder His power to help us by getting in the way.

"You see, there are two ways to fight God. There's the atheistic way in which the person says, 'I'm against God. In fact, I'm not even sure He exists; I'm fighting the idea that He cares about us and is active in our world.'

"The more subtle way is getting involved in His work, His business, trying to get His job done yourself." MCR, 130.

SPONTANEOUS FAITH: FAITH IS TOTALLY SPONTANEOUS

 "One of the greatest evidences of genuine faith is that it is totally spontaneous. It is not something that we work on or something that we work up. If we could get that one point straight, it would save us from accepting the counterfeit faith so prevalent today." OOF, 19.

AUTOMATIC FAITH

"The methods of becoming acquainted with God are the elements of a vital devotional life. And when I am in a meaningful relationship with God, day by day, I learn to trust Him -automatically, spontaneously, naturally. This is faith-trusting in its highest sense." MCR, 34.,.

FAITH A SPONTANEOUS QUALITY

"What we need to remember is that faith is never something we work on or something we work up. It is never self-generated. It is a spontaneous quality that comes from knowing God. Therefore, we don't put our attention toward getting faith-we put our attention toward knowing God, and the faith comes naturally." ROE, 101.

DEEPENING FAITH: DON'T EXPECT HELP

"Some have thought that the way to exercise faith is to force yourself to believe that something out of the ordinary is going to happen-or to get yourself into a bind, and then try to believe that God will help you out. But it is not exercising faith to write a rubber check, for example, and then wait to cover it. That's presumption. . Any time that we attempt to increase our faith by struggling hard to make ourselves believe a certain thing is going to occur, we are not really exercising faith." OOF, 20..

DON'T TRY TO INCREASE FAITH

"Faith is a very misunderstood word. There are people who think that faith is something you work up, something you generate yourself. But I'd like to propose that faith is never worked up by the person -faith is the gift of God." TKG, 71.

BELIEVING:  WORKING ON FAITH

"Genuine faith is never something that is worked up mentally. Try to make yourself believe something will happen; get yourself out on a limb, so God will work; pray for the sick; take their hand and say, 'Get up and walk.' -But what if it doesn't happen?" 2 AUC CM.

MAKING YOURSELF BELIEVE SOMETHING

"The common denominator or counterfeit faith, regardless of what form it takes, is the idea that you can make yourself believe something; and that if you believe hard enough this will cause God to move. It boils down to a type of mental gymnastics, or positive thinking, and perhaps its greatest danger is that it inevitably becomes self-centered, just as working hard on trying to overcome your sins makes you become self-centered." MCR, 23,24.

ABUNDANCE OF FORGIVENESS: FALSE OBEDIENCE.

"Shall-we never (in this campmeeting series] talk about obedience? Yes, because there is false faith and false obedience and so we must talk about it . . There is a nominal faith of most of the Christian world. That's why Ellen White talks so much about obedience. But if you have genuine faith, and if you believe by faith that you are genuinely forgiven, you don't ever have to worry about 'cheap grace,' as some people call it . . [Luke 17:3-4] If I trespass against God seven times in a day, that He will turn. and forgive me seven times in a day? Do you believe that? 0h, won't that lead to cheap grace? Can you hear the 'cheap grace people' saying, 'That's good news; live it up; do what you want and so on.' Is that what happens? . . God's forgiveness is unlimited for anyone who comes to Him. The more we are forgiven, the more we love; and the more we love, the more we will keep His commandments." 3 AUC CM.

SECTION SEVEN: MORE DANGERS

PHARISEEISM: TRYING TO GET OTHERS TO OBEY

"Another scripture, Matthew 23, describes the goodness, of the Pharisees in Christ's day. Apparently their condition was the same as in Laodicea, and it has been a lasting problem, the great danger of depending upon our morality or external ethics to commend us to God. 'Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites, for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves' (verse 15). Christ declared that those who campaign for others to be externally good as they are themselves will only make them twofold worse off than themselves." SBF, 51.

LAODICEANISM: WHAT IS A LAODICEAN?

"Laodicea doesn't know that it is lukewarm. They take credit for external goodness. They think they are ready for Jesus' coming because they don't smoke, drink or dance. They think they are Christians because they wouldn't think of doing a heinous act or deed. . Being good by not being bad in not being good." 1 AUC CM.

LAODICEA'S FORCED GOODNESS

 "Laodicea's biggest problem is its self-sufficiency and resulting external goodness. It is known for its morality, but not for its genuine righteousness or for its faith. Therefore the goodness of Laodicea is forced, and God tells them what He thinks about their calculated goodness-He wishes they were either hot or cold. He considers external goodness worthless in terms of salvation and sanctification. Further, He declares that. He is going to reject those who are only. externally good, for. He has no place for them:  SBF, 51..

THE LAODICEANS: THE PROBLEM OF THE LAODICEANS

"The problem of the Laodiceans is not that they are short on works." G N, 82.

LAODICEA NEEDS TO REPENT OF MORALITY

 "We need to understand what it is that Laodicea needs to repent of. It is not primarily immorality. Laodicea is quite moral. Laodicea is known for its external goodness. But in spite of that, the Saviour Is standing on the outside, knocking, seeking admission. What Laodicea needs to repent of is Its morality, Its many good works apart from Jesus"' FTW, 149.

[The sin of Laodicea Is worldliness and living apart from Jesus. Morris hardly ever speaks negatively about worldliness and sin. In his presentations, that which is dangerous is right-doing, not wrong doing.].

THE LAODICEAN SIN

" There's only one answer. Laodiceans, lukewarm people, have gotten used to finding their security in something other than the righteousness of Christ, and faith and love and the Holy Spirit. They have found their security in the external things they have been doing. Strong people can find security in externals, because strong people can live good moral lives on the outside."- TKG, 123.

LUKEWARMNESS: LUKEWARM AND LAODICEAN

. "A lukewarm person [Is] one who is hot on the outside, but cold on the Inside. It's the kind of person who knows all the rules and regulations, who has beaten a hard path from his home to the church door, who knows all the forms and ceremonies, but who still keeps God at arm's length. The Laodicean is one who wouldn't think of doing anything wrong, who is trying is get to heaven by his good works, and who is so busy being good that he doesn't have time day by day to spend with God in His Word and in prayer." GN, 76.

[In his books, Venden consistently never mentions people who are worldly as being sinful; it is only the ones who are trying to obey God who are pictured as the bad people. To so delineate the situation occasionally is one thing, but to do it incessantly is quite another.]

WHAT IS LUKEWARM?

"What is lukewarm? It is a combination of hot and cold. Matthew 23 is a hard speech against the leaders. Good on the outside, but inside not good-whitewashed! It was not the Romans who crucified Jesus. It was the religious leaders of that day-Sabbath-keepers, tithe-payers, health-reformers, faithful in family worship.- They had to go back from the cross in time for family worship." 1 AUC CM.

INCREASING OUR LOVE FOR GOD

 "Now let's talk about faith as one of the first things we need to leave the lukewarm condition. We should also dwell on love. Love is also spontaneous and natural when you get acquainted with someone. Trying to work on love is a dead-end street," 3 AUC CM.

SECTION EIGHT: THE WILL

HOW THE WILL OPERATES AFTER CONVERSION

 "One of the probing questions that has frustrated Christians for years is the question of how the will operates after conversion. There have been debates and questions concerning the will, but most of the discussions have dealt with the use of the will before conversion. . Very little has been done on the use of the will after conversion. . One of our problems in trying to live the Christian life is that we often are found trying hard to do that which God has told us we cannot do-fight sin and the devil. And we do not put forth effort to do that which He has invited us to do, that is, seek communion with Him. This does not mean that works are unimportant, but we are talking about method. And the method of knowing God's gifts is by faith alone. As we put forth our effort to come to Jesus, and to keep coming to Jesus, He will fulfill His promise to work in us, to will and to do of His good pleasure." FTW, 193.

[Earlier Adventist speakers would base their studies on the Bible and Spirit of Prophecy, but the tendency now is to research out the modern theologians. And although they may have little to say about obedience In sanctification and the use of the will in sanctification, -Ellen White surely has a lot to say on the topic!]

POWER OF CHOICE: SURRENDER IS GIVING UP YOUR POWER OF CHOICE

"Surrender is giving up our power of choice. 'Oh, but I'll be crippled!' Well, if God invites me to give up my power of choice, can't I leave the question of whether or not I'm going to be crippled up to Him? God invites us to surrender our will toward everything except the continuing relationship with Him." FTW, 171.

WE GO TO HIM; HE DOES THE REST

"So in the Christian experience of salvation by faith alone, we are to channel our power of choice and our willpower toward the continuing relationship of knowing God rather than directing it toward behavior. We can safely do so because when we choose the relationship, then God works in us to will (choose) and to do (behave).-SBF, 53.

NO VICTORY THROUGH THE WILL

"An exercise of will power at that point [the point of temptation] might help me to stop from carrying out the deed, but it won't give me genuine victory because all true obedience comes from the heart." MCR, 160.

NO CHOICE ON THE FRUIT

"If we choose to abide in Him, we have no choice on the fruit. It will be the natural and spontaneous result of that abiding." TKG,110.

POWER OF THE WILL: ONLY APPARENT VICTORIES WITH THE BACKBONE

"The only thing that I can do with my backbone in handling temptations is to appear victorious on the outside." MCR, 160.

BEWARE OF THE STRONG-WILLED WHO OBEY

"God wants us to surrender ourselves to Him, to give up on ourselves and on the idea that we can ever produce obedience, . . It was strong-willed people who crucified Jesus when He was here. They were threatened by His acceptance of weak people. They didn't want to hear about surrendering themselves, giving up their will, their power of choice, to God. . . It is crucifying to admit that we cannot overcome sin, that we cannot obey, that we Cannot produce righteousness, but that Jesus must do all of this for us" FTW, 172.

WILLPOWER: GETTING RID OF SIN-ENDS UP IN WORSE CONDITION

"Whenever a person tries to push out sin by his own backbone and will-power, he is going to end up in a worse condition than before. He mayor may not go back to rock music. But he may go into deep pride because of his accomplishments. And pride is the worst of all sins. So, you see, the question of surrender can be very tricky if we think that it has to do primarily with giving up things" FTW, 169.

NO WILLPOWER LEFT OVER

"If you fight the fight of faith with all your willpower, you won't have any willpower left over for anything else!" FTW,106.

ALL OUR WILLPOWER

"If we direct all of our willpower toward seeking the faith relationship with Christ, we will have none left to fight sin and the devil. And that's how it should be, for Christ has promised to do this for us."-FTW, 209.

DON'T BELIEVE IN YOURSELF

" 'The fight which I am to fight is "the good fight of faith," but the weapons of this warfare are not of the flesh. I do not believe in myself, and therefore I have no confidence in my own power to overcome evil." -ROE, 104.

USE OF THE WILL: THE PROPER USE OF THE WILL,

"And the proper use of the will is in choosing to respond to God's knocking at the door for relationship with Him. If we will choose that, and continue to choose that, God , will demonstrate in our lives, more and more unto the perfect day, that He can do the willing and the doing through us concerning the fight of sin."-FTW, 189."'

ONLY ONE THING WE CAN DO

"'I'd like to close this chapter with the premise and conclusion that it is our choice to respond to which power is going to rule over us, and that is all we can do. If the concept makes me nervous, it's simply the rebellion of my pride and ego." SBF, 33.

HE DOES IT ALL-BUT ONE THING

"It is not true that Jesus does it all, because Jesus cannot seek Himself for us. Here is where our will and our willpower and our human effort has to go-toward seeking Jesus in an ongoing relationship with Him every day. He does not do it all. He cannot seek Himself for us. But Jesus has promised that if we will seek relationship with Him, He will work to keep us from falling. And what Jesus has promised, He is able to perform. He does not need my help for that. So it is very crucial in coming to the place of overcoming sin that we understand clearly the difference between the fight of faith and the fight of sin," RO E, 105."

DEVELOPING WILLPOWER

AN ERROR TO DEVELOP WILLPOWER

"There was a time that whenever I came to page 47 of 'Steps to Christ,' I would say, 'Oh, THAT again,' and go on to the rest of the book. . But then it said, 'You need not despair. What you need to understand is the true force of the will.' And at that point I thought, Well, that's my problem all right, I need more force to my will. And with that gross misunderstanding, I again went to work to develop more willpower. . I was trying to develop will power, what we call backbone but the will is the power of choice. Will and willpower are not the same. Usually we equate willpower with discipline and grit and determination. But the power of choice is something different. It is our decision-making ability to do what you've decided upon."-OOF, 49, 50..

SURRENDERING THE WILL

WHEN WE WILL GO ASTRAY

"Haven't you noticed, however, that if you've experienced enough of the folly of relying on yourself and your own decisions, you don't want to ask for your power of choice back? Have you ever gone astray so much and so often in using your will and willpower on your own that you didn't want to employ it that way any more?"-SBF, 53.

THE NATURE OF SURRENDER'

"Some may say, 'If I'm supposed to give up my will, that sounds as though I'm going to go through life maimed and crippled.' Some become extremely nervous at the idea. But that's exactly what surrender is all about-the submitting of our will. High achievers, capable people, brilliant performers will find it most disconcerting, and even become angry at it. But surrender is giving up our power of choice to God.' -OOF,39.

A PASSIVE THING

"An instrument is a passive thing, but many of us fear the word passive. When we speak of the surrender of the will, ordinarily no one has any problem. But if we mention any giving up of the power of choice, people's faces cloud' up." -OOF, 48,49.

ND RESPONSIBILITY

WE DO NOT HAVE THE RESPONSIBILITY OF OBEYING

"It is of the utmost importance to realize that Jesus is not placing the responsibility, of our works, or our fruit-bearing, upon us. While it is true that we are to bear fruit, it is also true that it is accomplished by faith alone in Him."- TKG, 110.

[Responsibility is closely related to control. According to Venden, mankind (with the exception of Christ who was not like man) has had no control over his moral actions-even after surrendering to Christ:-since the Garden of Eden when Adam first fell. We are totally helpless in our sins and must let Him miraculously remove the temptations and smooth the way so we will easily want to obey Him and "keep His commandments." All this must be without any personal conflict or "fight" or effort on our part, sin- we are totally powerless to resist sin-any sin-that comes our way. Because we have no moral control over ourselves, this side of the Second Advent, we therefore have no responsibility for our moral actions -as long as we have accepted Christ as our Saviour and remain with Him. There is a final generation that obeys God fully, it will have, to come as a by-product of Divinely- controlled will automation. Read again that excellent study "The Error of Original Sin," written by Elder Ralph Larson [FF-27] , if you wish to better understand the philosophical basis underlying this deadly error.]

CRUCIFYING SELF

IT IS CRUCIFYING TO GIVE UP ON OBEYING HIM

"It is crucifying to admit that we cannot overcome sin, that we cannot obey, that we cannot produce righteousness, but that Jesus must do all of this for us."-FTW, 172.

BEARING THE CROSS

THE CROSS-GIVING UP NOT SIN BUT SELF

"Jesus said, 'If any man will come after me, let him deny. . ' What? 'himself.' Sometimes we read other things in there. Let him deny this or that or the other habit or practice or thing. I used to think that the cross was making myself not do something I really liked to do. I've heard other people say it too. 'My cross is giving up my dancing. I can't dance anymore. I sure wish I could, but that's my cross.' That is not what Jesus is talking about. No, the cross is to deny self. Let him deny himself, and take up his cross and follow Me. . The cross is not refusing to do something we would like to do. It's denying ourselves."-FTW, 85.

PEOPLE THAT DON'T WANT TO BEAR THE CROSS

"When we discover that we can do nothing but fall at Jesus' feet in humility and admit that we can't produce anything, then it becomes too heavy a cross to bear. But the cross is the essence of surrender, what it is all about. It involves giving up totally on self."-OpF, 41;

 [Venden's "cross-bearing" means being willing to stop trying to do right]

THE CHRISTIAN LIFE

CHRISTIAN LIFE SUMMED UP IN RELATIONSHIP ONLY

"When we seek Jesus we learn to trust Him, this allows Him to do the work in battling the enemy that so many of us have tried with ill success. . And if we will fight the fight of faith, He has promised that He will fight the fight of sin. For a long time some of us became so involved in the fight of sin we had no time or energy left for the fight of faith. Have you ever been in that trap? One of the reasons that the Christian life is so deplorably hard is because we get involved in the wrong fight, the wrong battle, and we fight the battle where the battle isn't instead of where it is. The Christian life, and salvation, is summed up in relationship only, if relationship is properly defined and understood."-FTW, 84.

SECTION NINE THE DEVOTIONAL LIFE

DEVOTIONAL LIFE

HOW WE ARE SAVED

 "We are not saved by our devotional life. We are saved by our acceptance of Christ's sacrifice for us at the cross and by continuing to accept Him on a daily basis."- TKG, 53.

BIBLE STUDY

BIBLE STUDY AND PRAYER

"'It is possible to make this another work's trip. It is possible! Just because you read your Bible and pray every day doesn't mean youre going to have a healthy spiritual life, but you're not going to if you don't!"-1 AUC CM.

BIBLE PROMISES

PROMISES-ONLY THAT HE WILL DO IT 

"Promises, promises. The Bible is full of promises, assuring us that God will fight our battles and win for us. But our actions often say that He isn't big enough to keep His promises. I've got to do something myself; I've got to count to 10; I've got to control my thoughts. And invariably my attention is focused back on self."-MCR, 127.

PRAYER- BIBLE PROMISES-SONG-DOESN'T WORK

" Now, we've all heard of various remedies that are suggested to people for overcoming temptations. Have you ever tried any of these? I've tried all of them, but they haven't worked. I don't believe that praying when temptations come is going to give me victory. I've tried it, and it doesn't work. I don't believe that quoting verses of Scripture when temptations come is going to give me victory over temptation. I've tried that, too, and it doesn't work. I don't believe that singing hymns is effective, either, because I've tried all 16 stanzas! And usually when people try these methods, they become frustrated and discouraged, because failure and defeat still come. The problem is that they are fighting the battle where the battle isn't."-MCR, 158, 159.

QUOTING SCRIPTURE

NO OVERCOMING POWER IN SCRIPTURE

"The quoting of Scripture came as a spontaneous response to the crisis of the moment [in the life of Christ] . He didn't depend upon mouthing some magical phrases for victory. . A person may pray when he is tempted, if he is in touch with the Father, and he may quote Scripture, and he may sing, but that's not what gives him the power to overcome." -SBF, 107.

PRAYER

PRAYER NOT EFFECTIVE.

"Now, I don't believe that praying when temptations come will give me victory over them. I've tried it, and it doesn't work. Nor will verses of Scripture or singing hymns. But someone always suggests such methods, and some people try them, only to find that failure and defeat still plague them."-SBF-102.

PRAYING FOR ANSWERS WE OFTEN LIVE WORSE WHEN WE PRAY

"Sometimes I've heard Christians say, 'What's wrong with my Christian experience? When I've tried to spend time each day getting acquainted with Jesus, then the rest of the day has been horrible! I've found myself with more problems, committing more sin, than I ever did before I became a Christian. Why doesn't it really work for me? Wasn't I really converted?'

"While it sounds sacrilegious to say that we often live worse when we pray than when we don't pray, many have discovered this experience to be a reality in their own lives. The enigma of experiencing worse lives in terms of performance and behavior when a person prays, has caused many to cease continuing to seek the deeper life with Christ. . [Story of Job]. .

"The problem is that we're cripplingly hooked on this tendency to measure our Christian experience and salvation by our performance. And even after we begin to seek the deeper life of relationship, we are still addicted to the habit of measuring our success according to our behavior. "-MCR,137, 142.

ANGRY WITH GOD-BECAUSE WE WANT SOMETHING

"Have you ever been afraid to admit to God that you were angry with Him? or that you didn't understand His dealings with you? or that you weren't at all sure that He was going to do for you that which you were asking Him to do? There's a big difference between having faith that God is going to answer your prayers according to your understanding, and believing in God."-FTW, 122.

WRONG WAY TO EXERCISE FAITH

"Have you ever though that the way to exercise faith was to ask God for hard answers? Have you ever thought that the way to exercise faith was to make yourself claim promises, whether you really believed them or not? Have you ever heard that exercising faith is getting yourself into a tight spot and then waiting for God to bail you out? Not so. According to Scriptures, the exercise of faith has to do with getting often in contact with the Word of God. That's the way you exercise faith."-FTW, 133.

BELIEVING CHRIST'S WORDS

DISBELIEVING CHRIST

"[Matthew 15:21 quoted. The woman whose daughter had a devil.] Jesus answered her not a word; He ignored her. 'I'm not here to help you.' She fell at His feet and worshiped Him: 'You can't give the bread to the dogs; give it to me. Give me dog food! Crumbs: And Jesus said, "Great is thy faith; your daughter is whole. What is faith? Take God at His Word! Did she? If she had taken Him at His word-she would have left. Believe! Did she believe what He said? Just the opposite. So faith is NOT taking God at His word or believing! Greek experts say the meaning of faith is TRUST. Faith, believe, trust have the same root word. Trust in God, trust also in Me. This is the victory that overcomes the world, our TRUST. Devils believe, but don't trust. Trust is the best word for faith." -2 AUC CM.

[His point here is that we should trust our lives to Him to work out in His own way, and not ask Him for or believe that He will give us various requested details during that life.]

CLAIMING PROMISES

FINDING A PROMISE AND BELIEVING IT

"Genuine faith as opposed to counterfeit faith is very small, but it is our only hope, because it is through faith we accept and depend upon Jesus. Now, let's take a look at the usual kind of faith. I had a man come into my office. He threw his Bible down. 'You can have it! Keep your faith and your Bible!" he said. He was a Seventh-day Adventist. What's the matter? His wife had died. I told her she wouldn't die. I claimed the promise. She died. It doesn't work [claiming promises]. I told him that that was not faith. That was the popular kind of faith: Find a promise [in the Bible] ; believe it strongly, and it will happen. . If our faith is something we have to work on or work up, then who is responsible if it doesn't happen? It is neither possible if I am operating on a false basis of faith that the devil himself" himself can answer my prayer or get me off the track. The devil can perform miracles! U-2 AUCCM.

SECTION TEN

EVEN WORSE DANGERS RIGHTEOUSNESS AS AN ESCAPE

WHAT WE HAVE TO SURRENDER

"We have to surrender the idea that we can attain righteousness apart from Jesus! The devil likes to have us work on our righteousness as a substitute for knowing Jesus. And it is possible for some to give up their evil tempers as an escape from giving up themselves to God! This is a dead-end street, because the strong who are able to do right externally become proud, while the weak who are only able to fail miserably become discouraged."-MCR, 125.

LEGALISTS

THE END OF WORKING

"There is bad news for legalists in this passage [Romans 10:4: "Christ is the end [Greek: "purposeu or "objective: "termination"] of the law of righteousness:' because they will never attain to righteousness by working on it, no matter how hard they work. But there is also good news for legalist, because they don't have to keep wearing themselves out with fruitless effort. Christ is the end of the law for righteousness for everyone that believeth. And that's good news, especially for legalists!

"It's the legalist who has been working the hardest on trying to gain salvation. And the words of Christ's friendly invitation, 'Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest' (Matthew 11: 28), can be the best news the legalist has ever heard, when their meaning finally comes clear. It is good news to hear and accept that Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone that believeth."-GN, 55, 56.

THE BLACK AND THE RED LEGALISTS

"This can get a little tricky, because there are two different kinds of legalists. There is the black legalists and the scarlet legalist! We might call them the rigid legalists and the liberal legalists. By the black legalist, I mean the one who has the black suit, black tie, black shoes, black socks, and a long face! He finds his security in the standards of the church that he upholds, and he judges everyone else who falls short of his achievements. (From his viewpoint, practically everyone else does fall short, by the way!) He's the Pharisee, and his outward performance is well controlled.

"The scarlet legalist is described in Revelation -the woman who is clothed in scarlet and adorned with jewels, etc. This type of legalist is reacting against the old-guard form of legalism. This person wears jewelry and makeup, goes to the movies, is not particular in regard to Sabbath observance, and takes real pride in the fact that she is no longer legalistic. But both kinds of legalists are deceived. They are as legalistic as ever, but just afflicted with different forms of the disease." -GN,54.

DEFEAT

DEFEATED BECAUSE WE DIDN'T LET GOD DO IT

"The reason we have met with defeat in our 'duty and deliberate obedience'  approach is because we don't believe God will do it for us. Sure, it is an effectual blow to our pride, but God's plan of salvation has no room for man's pride." -SBF,67.

RULES AND REGULATIONS

RULES, REGULATIONS AND LAWS

. . "Then where should I be placing my will and my willpower? Toward working on the rules, regulations, and laws for salvation? Toward the fight of sin? No.-SBF, 74.

DANGER IN DIVIDING TIME

. "Dividing my time between the fight of sin and the fight of faith is not God's plan for me. It must be all of my effort directed toward the fight of faith. That's where the battle really is."-SBF, 76.

CHILD TRAINING

DANGER OF TEACHING CHILDREN GOOD HABITS

"Then someone else inquires, 'Doesn't God ever use righteousness by works to lead to righteousness by faith?' Has He ever done it? Do you think He does now? Somehow we've read quotes from Ellen G. White out of context and come us with the idea that parents should teach their children righteousness by habit, which will keep them out of jail long enough to enable them to find Christ when they're older. Haven't you heard the concept or variations of it? We've been eminently successful on this.

"Let's 'face it- Laodicea has done a bang-up job here. And what have been the results? Are the young people able to 'understand righteousness through Jesus, faith, and surrender? No. It hasn't opened the door any wider for faith and experience with Christ. Often they can't even see Christ at all. Tired of being moral only externally, they leave the church:'-SBF, 60,61.

[It seems unbelievable that such concepts can be printed in books published by the Seventh-day Adventist Church. How can it be possible that our publishing houses will print such erroneous sentiments? Our homes, schools and Sabbath schools are trying to instill godly sentiments in the minds of our young-and Venden declares it very dangerous to do such a thing! What have we come to when Adventist college pastors will preach such garbage-and our publishing houses will print it! Is there no one to stand up and put a stop to these atheistic sentiments?]

THE MORALlTY MOLD HURTS OUR YOUNG PEOPLE

"I have talked with young people completely incapable of fathoming what salvation through faith in Christ alone really means, because they are so steeped and brainwashed into their mold of morality and external goodness. Righteousness by faith sounds like some strange language to them. And as a result they apparently cannot understand the real relationship with God until they are almost in college, and often not even then. It's too bad:'-SBF, 61.

[It is well-known that these books authored by Morris Venden are based on the sermons he gives in the pulpit to college students (he has been senior college pastor for a number of years now) or at campmeetings and weeks of prayer across the country. What you are reading is what he is teaching our youth all over North America. There was a time when Adventism tended to emphasize morality and standards (doctrine) more than Christ; now Venden in reaction wants to exalt the "righteousness of Christ"-and leave out the morality and standards, or, lacking that, to ridicule them to death.]

FASTING

FOOLISH TO FAST

"Jesus said, 'This kind doesn't come out except by prayer and fasting.' But Jesus, who cast the demon out, hadn't been fasting, so far as we know. It's easy to take a literal interpretation of this and think that somehow God in heaven will look down and say, 'If these people will go without eating for a period of time and beg Me to help them, I will be impressed and will move in their behalf: No, not at all. This doesn't line up with what Jesus said about God being willing to give good gifts to His children. You don't earn power over the demons by going without eating, by doing penance, by effort, or by struggling. So what did Jesus mean? The prayer and fasting that Jesus had been involved in included a continuing relationship with His Father."-DD, 10-11.

WASTING TIME

WASTING TIME TRYING TO SIN NOT

"We have been wasting time and energy trying to 'sin. not: when the time and effort' and energy is supposed to go toward abiding in Him. Do you follow at all?"-ROE, 105.

FANATICISM

WHAT IS A FANATIC?

"I've heard several definitions of a fanatic. Someone who has lost his purpose but doubled his efforts."-2 AUC CM.

WEARINESS

TOO TIRING

"Best thing to do is to spend time on eating, not growing. Put the attention on faith. Obedience is the fruit of faith. The devil has tried to get us to work on trying to be good instead of trying to know Jesus, and in the process of trying to be good, some of us have gotten so tired. So tired that we hardly had enough strength left to get to know Jesus."-3 AUC CM.

WEARING OUT OUR LIVES

"Sometimes we think there are many things we have to do In living the Christian life, and we wear out our lives trying to accomplish them."-SBF, 67.

THE FEW VALUES IN NOT SINNING

THERE ARE BENEFITS: NO JAIL OR EARTHLY GUILT

 "Now someone is sure to ask if it is wrong to be 'good' if he doesn't really feel like it. Many young people have raised the question. 'Theoretically we understand the concept of salvation and relationship through faith in Christ,' they explain. 'But if we've been forcing ourselves to do what's right, then for the sake of salvation through faith in Christ alone, hadn't we better stop being good so that "grace may abound" in our lives? What are we supposed to do while our faith is growing to the ideal point of constant natural obedience? If we try hard to keep obeying deliberately, will that ruin everything? Or if we feel like committing fornication or adultery, would it be just as Well to go ahead, then?'

"Although being good by not being externally bad is, not being good, as far as God is concerned, there's no question that man considers it as good. If I feel like killing someone, but manage to restrain myself from doing it, I will have some real benefits. I'll keep out of jail, and I won't have the guilt of a murder on my hands. (But I'll probably give myself credit for having enough willpower to control my actions.) Certainly morality has all kinds of advantages as far as man and the law view it. But external goodness contains no real righteousness as far as God is concerned. In fact, it can even make one feel secure apart from God."-SBF, 50.

OBEDIENCE ONLY IMPRESSES HUMAN LAW COURTS

"The fight of sin is not where the battle really is regardless of whether I've been seemingly 'successful' or not, because the only way I can ever succeed in it is externally, outwardly, and that means nothing in God's book. Of course it impresses the courts of the land, it works with the traffic signals and police on the highways, and it keeps me out of jail, but it does not count for Christianity or for salvation" -SBF, 73.

SECTION ELEVEN SOME ADVENTIST DOCTRINES

WHAT YOU BELIEVE (Doctrinal Content)

NOT WHAT YOU BELIEVE

"In the first place, belief is not based on what, it is based on whom. It isn't what set of doctrines or creeds you consider to be correct. I know in whom I have believed-not in what I have believed."-FTW, 138.

[Morrie's problem very often is pitting one truth against another. We are saved by what we believe and "in whom" (Christ) we believe; not one vs. the other.]

SPIRIT OF PROPHECY WRITINGS

A BASIC PROBLEM

"Because of the evidence that Jesus' coming is right upon us, people are getting panicky. One of our biggest temptations is to adjust our theology to match our experience, instead of finding out how to change our experience to match our theology. And in spite of our attempts to hide our real concern, we would have to admit that it isn't so much what Ellen White said about the geological formation of volcanoes, for instance, that we're having trouble with. The problem is what she said about sin and righteousness. I don't think that people are so worried about whether she borrowed material from Hanna or Edersheim or Uriah Smith. I think they are worried about what she had to say concerning sin and righteousness." -G N, 21.

SPIRIT OF PROPHECY STUDY

READING IN THE "TESTIMONIES" FOR STUDY TIME

"In all our devotional experience, the, need is to study for the purpose of communication or fellowship with Jesus. Time alone at the beginning of every day to seek Jesus is the goal.

"If I am seeking fellowship with Jesus, am I going to spend more time studying the four Gospels or some point of history or prophecy? If I'm seeking fellowship with Jesus, would I choose a volume of rebuke and reproof or 'The Desire of Ages?' Let's make a distinction here. There are many people who have turned away from Ellen G. White and her writings because someone has majored in what we might call the instructional writings. There are entire books that are primarily for the purpose of instruction, counsel, reproof.

"There are other books that we might call inspirational writings. This doesn't mean that you can't find some instructions in the inspirational, and some inspiration in the instructional. But there are these two general types of writings.

"A person who studies only in the instructional often becomes the type of person who goes around with a special testimony for his neighbor across the aisle. He has a reproof and rebuke for every occasion."-FTW, 113.

STANDARDS - DEALING WITH SPECIFIC SINS

DEVIL HAS SOMETHING TO DO WITH ROCK MUSIC?

"Perhaps some speaker tells our young people that the devil has something to do with rock music, and they get rid of their rock records. But those who have given up their rock music for any reason other than a love for Jesus, and letting Jesus come into their lives, have not really given up their rock music."-FTW, 169

IF YOU GIVE UP ROCK MUSIC

"Whenever someone tries to eject sin by his; own backbone and will power, he's going to end up in a worse condition than when he started. A teen-ager who has given up rock music may not go back to it, but he may take up something else. Or he may succumb to pride because of his accomplishment, and pride is the worst sin of all." -00 F, 36, 37.

HE HAS TO DO IT ALL

"When it comes to my attempts to overcome smoking or temper, He has to do it all." -00 F, 42.

DRINKING AND SMOKING AND WITH HIM ANYWAY

"The weakest person, who can't stop his drinking or smoking or anything else, who also fears that he cannot enter into a meaningful private-life with God, has hope too, because God will meet him more than halfway. When it comes to overcoming sins, God doesn't meet me more than halfway-He has to do it all."-FTW, 173.

THE ELIJAH MESSAGE

SELF-WORSHIP

"The first part [of the Elijah Message]-'Ye have forsaken the commandments of the Lord. The second part 'Thou has followed Baalim.' And the third part, a call for decision-'How long halt ye between two opinions?' . . So the second part of Elijah's message is a warning against self-worship-a warning against trying to save'- ourselves by our own efforts. . Therefore Baal worship is one of our greatest dangers. All you have to do to worship Baal is to try in some way, to save yourself, instead of relying upon the Lamb of God." RET, 16, 17,38.

THE FIRST ANGEL'S MESSAGE

THE FIRST ANGEL'S MESSAGE

"The second part is "Give glory to Him." There is no room for the glory of man in the work of the gospel. . The human problem is the tendency to center on the glory, the achievements, the ability of man. In the Christian setting, even if we get it straight that we're not going to be able to add anything at all to the work of the cross, we still hang on like bulldogs to the idea that we can do something to help God out in the work He wants to do in us. But whether it's in what God -has done for us [at Calvary], or whether it's in what God wants to do in us [now], there is no glory for man in the work of the gospel, because all we can do is come to Jesus and keep coming to Him, just as we are."-RET, 51.

THE SECOND ANGEL'S MESSAGE

SPIRITUAL FORNICATION

"Right at the end of the second angel's message is something else we need to consider. It says that Babylon 'made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication.' What is her 'fornication'? . . In a spiritual sense this would be the merging of two principles that are not mergeable. The two principles that cannot merge are salvation by faith and salvation by works. Theologians have a word for the attempt to merge two incompatible, antagonistic principles. Syncretism. Babylon is syncretism-or spiritual fornication. For since salvation by faith and salvation by works are totally incompatible, they cannot be combined. They are mutually exclusive. Salvation is either totally through faith in Christ alone or totally through your own works. There is no middle ground. To attempt combining the two is to attempt the impossible." -RO E, 64.

OUT OF BABYLON

"'Thank God He has power to free us from the captivity of Babylon and everything it involves and to bring us to our knees with Nebuchadnezzar in praise and honor of Him away from the worship of ourselves, away from glorifying ourselves, away from trying to save ourselves in any way-to worship Him, the Creator, the King of heaven."-ROE, 68.

THE SECOND ANGEL'S MESSAGE

" 'I want to do it myself!' . . We find it not only in children but in older people as well-and it is found right in the middle of these three angels' messages. It is the very essence of all false religion-'Do it myself, God-I'll do it myself.' "-ROC, 60.

THE THIRD ANGEL'S MESSAGE

REST FROM LABOR

" 'No' rest for the wicked' is a common phrase. But sometimes there has been no rest for the 'righteous' either, and that's one of the things we would like to notice particularly as we study the third angel's message. . Finally, we are told that the ones who die in the Lord rest from their labors, and their works follow them. Jesus invites you today to rest from your labors-to be crucified with Christ, to be dead to self and self-worship. One of the things that happens at the very end with Elijah people is that we come to understand that we are invited to Jesus to find rest, not only in terms of our hope of heaven, but also in terms of obedience and our living now."-ROE, 69, 80, 81.

THE THIRD ANGEL'S MESSAGE

"The last warning message of Elijah the Third includes both the work of God for us and the work of God in us. These works of God take place only by faith-by the acceptance of His pardon and power. And this is what constitutes the third angel's message."-ROE, 71.

THE PATIENCE OF THE SAINTS

THE SAINTS ARE PATIENT WITH THEIR BEHAVIOR

" Interestingly, the book of Revelation describes the commandment-keeping saints as patient. If you are going to be one of those who have the faith of Jesus, enduring to the end and keeping God's commandments, you will have patience as well. Have you ever found yourself impatient with your behavior and performance? It's an easy thing to do. And yet surely we can afford to be as patient with ourselves as God is with us."-OOF, 18.

THE BEAST

THE BEAST OF REVELATION

"The beast represents a form of self-worship. And if there's anything worse than one person worshiping himself, it's two people worshiping themselves. And if there's anything worse than that, it's two million people worshiping themselves. And if there's anything worse than that, it's organized self-worship. So if you are familiar with this beast in the historical or prophetic sense at all, you know that it is- a system of organized self-worship on the part of millions-a system of works as a basis of salvation. And self-worship is called blasphemy in the Bible.

"But do you have to become a part of this giant, worldwide, organized system of self-worship in order to worship yourself? Would it 'be' possible to be a member of the 'remnant church' and still be worshiping yourself? It might be wise to stop focusing on people 'out there' whom we consider to be worshiping' themselves and begin looking closer to home." -ROE, 72. .

THE MARK AND THE SEAL

THE MARK OF THE BEAST AND THE SEAL OF GOD

"The mark of the beast is more than simply which day you go to church. Do you accept that? In fact, the seal of God, which you understand to be the opposite of the mark of the beast, involves more than just keeping Saturday. So the mark of the beast involves something more than just going to church on Sunday. These days can become symbols of works or faith. The first day of the week represents salvation by works."-ROE,73.

THE IMAGE OF THE BEAST

THE IMAGE TO THE BEAST

"So the image to the beast is enforcing a religious duty by human power. Will you personalize that, please? Have you ever tried to enforce a religious duty by human power in your life? Have you ever tried to enforce a religious duty by human power on January 1- Righteousness by resolution. Human nature has long come up with psychological and humanistic gimmicks to try and force itself to obey. The combination of belief in God, in a theoretical sense, and trying to obey through your own efforts, is the image to the beast. But God's power plus man's power equals NO power."-ROE, 77. [Emphasis his.].

BABYLONIAN CAPTIVITY

HOW TO GO INTO BABYLON

"The only thing necessary to become a captive of Babylon is to become a slave to the idea that I can save myself or that I can 'do it myself,' in terms of living the Christian life or of getting to heaven. . The person who is going through life trying to become good enough and stay good enough to 'make it' through the gates of the Holy City is a captive to Babylon. The religious person who does not take time .for a meaningful devotional life has partaken of the essence of Babylon. He is trying to save' himself. That's what. Babylon is all about. Although its origin was at Babel, it has continued through the centuries to this very day. And it is possible, even at the very end of earth's history, to be a captive to Babylon." -ROE, 61, 62.

MEANING OF THE SABBATH

REST FROM OVERCOMING-SYMBOLIZED BY SABBATH

"Of what is the Sabbath a sign? Sanctification. Exodus 31:13 talks about it. Ezekiel 20:12, 20 talks about it. The Sabbath is a sign of the God who sanctifies His people. The truth about God's day of rest and the truth about rest from our own efforts to overcome are closely connected."- TKG, 100.

ENTER THE REST OF NO LONGER TRYING.

"But I invite you today to enter into God's rest, to cease from your own works in trying to obey and overcome and be victorious. If we will continue to seek personal fellowship with Him, God will lead us to the rest that is symbolized by the Sabbath rest. . I will try to put all this in the simplest possible terms. If you enter into a relationship with the Lord Jesus Christ and continue that relationship with Him from now until He comes again, He will do the rest. That's the simplest answer to the question of how to obey. . Forgiveness is a gift, salvation is a gift, and obedience is a gift, all to be received through continuing fellowship and communion with the One who is the giver."-TKG,100-101. .

THIS EMPHASIS-IS THE LAST MESSAGE TO MANKIND

"At the time of His coming there will be only two groups. This emphasis upon the righteousness of Christ by faith alone has been rising steadily, and nothing is stopping it. It's the last message just before Jesus returns, and it causes the last events just before He comes again. We can rejoice that we see it happening, for it tens us that Jesus' coming is very, very near."- TKG, 124.

SECTION TWELVE PREPARING FOR HIS COMING

WHEN WE SIN

NO CONDEMNATION IN FALLING

"Satan has triumphed time and again by getting religious people to believe that when they fall or fail, they are condemned."-FTW, 192.

HASTENING HIS RETURN

WE ARE TWISTING THE STATEMENT

"However there is another problem: we have twisted that statement COL 69 :1 [COL 69, paragraph 1] around to make it appear that somehow we are going to cause Christ's coming by getting His character perfectly reproduced in us. I don't think this is what He's waiting for at all. We have done the same thing with the gospel to all the world-that if we get busy and finish the work, then He will be able to come." TTI-1, 8-9.

[Venden is here commenting on the "Christ's Object Lessons," 69:1 statement, which was quoted earlier in this "Insight" interview (on page 7). Here is the COL statement that Venden is here discussing: "When the character of Christ shall be perfectly reproduced in His people, then He will come to claim them as His own." Read the entire page. Paragraph two is just as forthright in presenting this beautiful concept. Also notice in the above statement by Venden that taking the final message to all the world in order to hasten His coming is but another worthless idea that needs to be discarded-even though Jesus Himself declared it to be so (Matthew 24:14).]

HOW THE FINAL ISSUE OF OBEDIENCE WILL BE MET

"If we consider obedience important, and if obedience or disobedience is the final question the whole world will decide, then I can do only one thing relative to that obedience, and that is to give up on myself. But only through faiith and trust in the One who has the power to produce genuine righteousness will that happen."-OOF, 27.

DON'T BE IMPATIENT TO OVERCOME

"Sometimes we get impatient and try to put timetables on Christian growth and victory and overcoming. But we'd better not! That's God's business; that's the Holy Spirit's work."- TKG, 95.

SIN - AND JESUS TOO

JESUS STAYS WITH THOSE WITH CHERISHED SINS

"How Jesus Treated Known Sinners-Is it possible for saints to sin? Is it possible to sin and know that you are sinning, and keep doing what you are doing wrong, and still be a Christian? How does Jesus treat saints who sin? This is a practical question, and has an answer that is exciting and encouraging. He was kind to His disciples. He was patient with them. He didn't condemn them. He gave them His lessons, and when they didn't learn, He continued teaching. And above all He continued fellowshipping with them. . This sin, of which the disciples were guilty, was one of the worst sins, if not THE worst. It was sin; it was BAD sin. . In fact, they continued in this sin the whole three years they were with Christ. They were still at it in the upper room on the night before the crucifixion. And so it qualifies as known sin, continuing sin, habitual sin, cherished sin, persistent sin, presumptuous sin, you name it. The disciples were guilty of the worst sin. . At this point someone might say, 'The problem with these disciples was that they were not converted.' Don't tell me that!' " - TKG, 84, 86, 87,88. [Emphasis his.]

KNOWN SIN AND A CONTINUING RELATIONSHIP

"So it is possible for the growing Christian to discover that he has a known sin going on in his life and at the same time a continuing relationship with Jesus."- TKG, 93.

CHERISHED SIN ONLY BECOMES DANGEROUS WHEN

 "Now we have come to the real issue in cherished sin, presumptuous sin, highhanded sin-the kind of sin that gives dangerous ground. When we choose to scrap the relationship with Jesus or refuse the relationship with Jesus in favor of the sin, then we are in peril."- TKG, 94.

PERFECTION

DANGEROUS TO TALK MUCH ABOUT IT

"Perfection can be a dangerous subject. Dwelling on the topic can itself be a discouraging and defeating work. The reason is that when we talk about perfection, our attention is almost invariably focused inward on ourselves, and that's not where the power is. The power is always outside of us. So, to deal safely with the question of perfection, it must be handled lightly, once over, and be done with it."-JSAP, 8.

DON'T STUDY PERFECTIONISM

"There is a vast difference between the legitimate study of the subject of perfection and becoming involved in perfectionism. A person who is into perfectionism is one who becomes preoccupied with perfection. He thinks of little else. He focuses his attention primarily on the subject of perfection, and everybody else's as well."-FTW, 362.

WRONG: SINLESS BEFORE SECOND COMING

"To begin with, we need a clear understanding of the difference between perfection and perfectionism. Here is where we need a glossary. I will hazard a definition: The person who is involved in perfectionism is the one who usually thinks of little else, the one who focuses his attention and everybody else's attention primarily on perfection. The one who believes in perfectionism in often the one who insists that the sinful nature is eradicated before Jesus comes again and that we can not only overcome but become sinless as well. I would like to disclaim any identity with perfectionism. But the doctrine of perfection is a good Bible doctrine, a solid Bible teaching, and Jesus Himself had something to say about it."-JSAP,8.

 [It is quite obvious from this passage that Venden has different theological definitions than we read in the Spirit of Prophecy. He is fully in favor of "perfection" and "perfection of character" and "victory over sin" and "a full overcoming." But we read farther and we find that he does not believe in any of these concepts in the sense that they are defined in the .spirit of Prophecy. Venden says that "perfectionism" includes the beliefs that we can overcome sin to the point of becoming sinless, and that it will take place before the Second Advent of Jesus. And he says that he does not believe in these ideas.]

NOT "YOU HAVE TO BEFORE PROBATION ENDS"

" 'Perfectionism' is not a safe topic. But perfection is a Bible teaching. We cannot reach a goal that we are not aware of. Perhaps that's one reason why we are not told about it. We don't have to spend a lot of time dwelling on what we must be, but we can spend some useful, thankful hours dwelling on what we can be. There's a big difference between saying, "You have to reach this goal by the time probation closes," and saying, "God is going to lead His people to victory." There's a big difference between saying, "I must," and saying, . "He can."-FTW, 368. .

FOLLOW ONLY IN SERVICE

" 'If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me' (Matthew 19:21) . . I had real problems with that text for a long time, because I said, "How can a person be perfect, and then come and follow Jesus?" It seemed to me that one would have to get with Jesus first or he could never hope to be perfect. But as I took a deeper look at that text I began to see that Jesus was telling him-telling us-how to be perfect. Jesus is talking about much more than just money. Get rid of whatever you have. You may be rich in talent. Stop depending upon your talent. You may be rich in good looks and are overcome every time you look in the mirror! Get rid of you gook looks. I mean, of course, get rid of your dependence upon them. Don't depend on your brains, or your education, or your social status, or anything else. Sell all that you have, in terms of depending upon it. Get rid of all the things that you depend on in any way as a substitute for depending upon Jesus. And come to Him, having given up on yourself.

"And then follow Him. What was that added for? Jesus said it in another place, "Follow me, and I will make you fishers of men" (Matt. 4:19). He is talking about following Him in service."-JSAP, 9.

[Don't follow Him in resisting sin and obeying God; only follow Him in helping others.]

ONLY COME-TILL THE SECOND ADVENT

"Do you realize that you are a sinner? Do you realize that you are helpless to do anything about it? And have you come to the point of giving up on ever being able to do anything about it? Then you can come to Jesus, just as you are, because those are the steps to Him. God is drawing you to Him, and you can respond, and continue to come to Him tomorrow morning and the next, until Jesus Himself comes again."-TKG,41. .'

SAVED SINNERS

"He [Paul] was talking about the fact that apart from God we are sinful by nature and that only by the grace of God can we experience anything else. I'm thankful that it is possible to be a saved sinner. But it's important to realize that we will continue to be sinful by nature until Jesus comes again." - TKG, 44.

AFTER PROBATION CLOSES

SINNERS TILL JESUS COMES

0 "We are sinners by nature, and will remain so until Jesus comes again. Please notice that we are sinners by birth, and that we will continue to be sinners by nature, until Jesus comes again, whether we're sinning or not."-FTW, 162.

[There is a truth here, but there is also an emphasis that leads us in the direction of other statements of his that indicate that it will be all right to sin till Jesus returns.]

WE WILL CONTINUE TO BE SINNERS

"The only way a Christian can live is by faith, and only by faith, and by faith only. This is possible because of our nature. Apart from Christ we are sinners. And we will continue to be sinners until Jesus comes. This doesn't mean that we have to keep sinning. -It means that we will continue to be sinners. Our only hope is in connection with Him. We know this is true because of the nature of surrender. Surrender is giving up on ourselves -4 AUC CM.

HOW TO OBEY

"I will try to put all this in the simplest possible terms. If you enter into a relationship with the Lord Jesus Christ and continue that relationship with Him from now until He comes again, He will do the rest. That's the simplest answer to the question of how to obey. . Forgiveness is a gift, salvation is a gift, and obedience is a gift, all to be received through continuing fellowship and communion with the One who is the giver." -TK6,100.101.

SOME BASIC PRINCIPLES

"Obedience can come only by faith, first of all, because of the nature of mankind. We are sinners. We will be sinners until Jesus comes, and sinners cannot produce obedience. Second, obedience can come only by faith; because since we are sinners and cannot produce obedience apart from God, all we can do is give up ever hoping to produce any real obedience. The only thing we can do is surrender, give up on ourselves, submitting totally to the control of Jesus Christ." -FTW, 175.

LIVE WITHOUT SINNING-BY TRUST ALONE

"So the answer to the question-Can anyone live without sinning? -is Yes. Jesus did. Can we-with emphasis on we? The answer is No. Romans 8:7-the sinful mind is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. Romans 3:23-all have sinned. So we cannot live without sinning. . Can anyone live without sinning? Jesus did. Can we? No, we can't. Must we? Yes. How? The same way Jesus did-by trusting in a power above us,"-ROE, 95, 98. .

WE CAN'T BE SINLESS

"When we talk about overcoming sin, we are not talking about being sinless. If a person were able to stop sinning today, he would still not be sinless because of his sinful nature."-ROE,99.